muscled

Hello!I just registered and this is my first post although I've been lurking in this site for some time now! I intend to make a muscled thorax roughly based on the examples from the Met and the British museum (sorry don't have the links for the pictures around but I guess you know the ones I mean ). I have finished the designs and started the shaping but I have no idea how to make the fastenings since I can't find any pictures showing the sides. I have seen rings attached to some thorakes but I don't know how these would work. Would the hinges used on the Manning Imperial thorax be authentic?Any info or pics would be most welcome! Hey Dimitris!Wellcome to the forum. Nice to see one mor fellow Greek in the ancient world.17 huh?How do you find time to build a muscled cuirass Manning Imperial is auhentic,yes. This piece can be ised as a guide,concerning the hinges and edges. As you see it has no rings and this is authentic,too. Some times there were rings and no hinges and some times both hinges and rings. The shoulders could have or not hinges,both authentic. This thorax might help Rings would serve exactly like this image with leather straps. Marks have been found on thorax parts that prove this use. As you're new to re-enactment,I'd suggest Connolly's Greece and Rome at War for lots of interesting info on matters of armour construction and not only. I ordered it in English. In Greek,you may find the book "Η Πολεμική Τέχνη των Αρχαίων Ελλήνων" that is a part from Connolly's Greece and Rome at War,and may be the translation of another of his books "The Greek Armies". Lots of other interesting books also,but IMO Connolly's the most useful to the re-enactor. KhaireGiannisPS. Send photos of the process if you can!_________________Giannis K. Hoplitea k a.:Giannis Kadoglou Thanks Giannis nice to be here! You wouldn't imagine where one can find time if he wants to! I'll tell you this: I woke up at seven on Saturday just to squeeze in an hour of hammering Very informative reply as allways Giannis! Great picture that one. I only had a picture of the front plate. I'm still thinking about what to use though. I'm leaning towards hinges because I'd like it to be solid and tight fitting while with the straps edges tend to dislocate I'd prefer an English copy(I do not trust translators in such books ) do you think I'll find that anywhere in Greece or will I have to order it? Process pics will follow later in the day but as a heads up: My hammering skills are somewhat limited and this is like an exercise with all the muscle shaping. By the way. I almost forgot. I've got another question. Was the metal on the edges of the armour always turned to the outside? Are there any examples of it being turned otherwise?In my reconstruction although I knew it might be inauthentic. I turned it to the inside. Turning to the outside required some tools I do not posses . Anyway the way I did it doesn't scratch the skin and the end result somewhat the same... Well here are some pics:Cardboard designs:Front half shaped(in that pic you can see my sketch on musculature):Front plate inside:This is as far as I've done. Note that the muscles in the end will be somewhat more.. discreet since they will fade just a little bit after "cleaning" the hammer marks. What do you all think? Gongrats. One of our members used attached cupboard hinges and he secures them with "perones" (bronze nails)Kind regards_________________HOPLITE14GR (aka Stefanos)Phokean EkdromosZEYS SOTIR NIKI!! Welcome to RAT. Dimitris!So you're knocking a muscled cuirass together by yourself that's admirable!I love your pictures do keep them coming._________________Susanne ArvidssonI have not spent months gathering Hoplites from the four corners of the earth just to let some Swedish pancake in a purloined panoply lop their lower limbs off! - Paul Allen. Thespian Thanks a lot Susanne for your kind words!That's what I was thinking as well but if I don't find any apropriate cupboard hinges I'll try to make some. You can never be sure of the alloy used! Would this be an authentic way to fasten the shoulders?This cuirass was made by Noricum Replikate. I found it on Matthew Amt's page. Such a fastening would make the thorax lock in a certain place and it's easier to make than hinges. Utterly incredible work! Way to go! Keep updating us. We're all proud of you. A laud is well deserved._________________M. Demetrius Abicio(David Wills)Saepe veritas est dura. Of course!Laudes!How thick is the brass you use?In one of your next pics can you also show some of your tools/hammers etc?So it can be done. I'm planning for a late bell cuirass myself,but I'm still in progress with my all plated linothorax. In the bell cuirass I'm afraid I won't be able to do the waist outward curvature... The shoulder fastening. This is a very early way of fastening the sides of the bell cuirass and I think this particular example was from the bronze age. The muscled cuirasses when they had,they were the same as in the sides. Given that this type exists in greek hoplite armour,hoever,I don't thin anybody would blaim you for inaccuracy in this one. This is perhaps the best recreation of a muscled cuirass based on one from the BM. I've not seen the original,only Connolly's reconstruction. You can see the hinges and rings in the sides and shoulders. Dimitri,keep them coming!KhaireGiannis_________________Giannis K. Hoplitea k a.:Giannis Kadoglou Thank you both! The brass I used is 1.2 mm thick which is a great thickness: not soft but easy to work. Sure it's no problem. I'll post some pictures tomorrow. It's pretty basic though. I have a small 3kg anvil a dishing stump I made and a raising hammer. Sometimes I use an iron canonball for raising and a vise would be very useful although I broke my last one Yes I'm aware of that reconstruction truly magnificent! Keep up the good work._________________Spyros KaltikopoulosHonor to those who in the life they leaddefine and guard a Thermopylae. Never betraying what is right,consistent and just in all they dobut showing pity also and compassionKavafis the Alexandrian Yia sou kai sena!I shaped the chest today so here's a photo of it (with me insdie it ):The fit isn't quite perfect yet but I'll do the rest of the fitting after I roughly finish the backplate. By the way here are all the tools I used for the thorax (except for the shears I used to cut the metal): Yia sou kai sena!I shaped the chest today so here's a photo of it (with me insdie it ):The fit isn't quite perfect yet but I'll do the rest of the fitting after I roughly finish the backplate. By the way here are all the tools I used for the thorax (except for the shears I used to cut the metal): No serious... Bravo!... I dont know how you could make it perfect to your body.. it look like it fits you very close... Laudes. I will work on my greaves after I buy a heater its cold down here. Cheers._________________Gioi A... K. PS: Demosthenes.. stink!!!-->> <<-- Philip is Nice!!!Remarks by Philip on the Athenian Leaders:Philip said that the Athenians were like the bust of Hermes: all mouth and dick. Yperocho adelfeLaudes from me too!Our members experience is that you mast think of an "ypothorakio" too. Best_________________HOPLITE14GR (aka Stefanos)Phokean EkdromosZEYS SOTIR NIKI!! WOW! Awesome job on that lorica! Laudes!That is a great deal of work! Although Roman and not Greek.. this is mine it took a few weeks to get it right and then another few weeks to make the appliques. I've since made the shoulder doublers. I need to take new photos. _________________Vale!Antonivs Marivs Congianocvsaka Anthony CongianoMy ancient coin collection: Thanks a lot. I greatly value your opinions!I probably should make an ypothorakio; what would it be made of? Any info or photos?Great cuirass please send more photos! dimitri,I'm sure with an ypothorakio the thorax would fit pretty well. Linen or leather should be used. Personally i'm not sure an ypothorakio is that accurate for 5th-4th century cuirasses. In the photo you wear it naked,even with the leather lining and the chiton it should feel much better. By little suggestions,the breast could be hammered a little bit more to look a bit more extended than the muscles of the belly. And the waist line could curve a little bit outwards,it should make it more comfortable. I know you bsaid you're gonnal reshape it for better fit when it's almost finished. Well done. KhaireGiannis_________________Giannis K. Hoplitea k a.:Giannis Kadoglou Thank you very much for your suggestions Gianni that's about what I was thinking too! The line underneath the breast needs to be curved out a bit as well. Was the leather lining glued on the thorax or stitched? Please tell me it can be glued. I wouldn't like to make small holes all around my thorax! I'm sorry for asking so many questions but info on the Net seems very limited or at least I can't find much... Haha,sure,you can glue it. Thorakes with holes have been found but most of them do not have holes. Asking as many questions as possible is the safest way to make it as accurate as possible-and this is what all of us are excited to see. And I see yours is fairly beautiful!KhaireGiannis_________________Giannis K. Hoplitea k a.:Giannis Kadoglou Ypothorakio is a hotly debated subject. In all propabilty both attached and separate versions existed and probably both linen and leather were used. In a time where very few "state armouries" existed a lot was left to the individuals choice. Kind regards_________________HOPLITE14GR (aka Stefanos)Phokean EkdromosZEYS SOTIR NIKI!! You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forumYou cannot edit your posts in this forumYou cannot delete your posts in this forumYou cannot vote in polls in this forumYou can attach files in this forumYou cannot download files in this forum The board owner and administration cannot be held responsible for the opinions expressed on Romanarmytalk. For further information we refer you to our legal notices which can be seen. Powered by © 2001. 2005 phpBB Group :: Spelling by Some phpBB MOD's Provided By:

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When you try to please every one you end up pleasing nobody it would seem girls of add town are doing it for themselves and pumping up a act of controversy can girls be to muscled? come up for some high compose chicks it would be so. Jessica Simpson. Jada Pinkett Smith (Will Smiths wife). Sarah Jessica Parker and Madonna are being outed as being overly muscled chicks suffering from Jessica Simpson is apparently taking her charge training to a new level training up to 2 hours a day combining weights and cardio to bring home the bacon her goal of becoming ordain Smiths wife Jada has appeared flexing a bicep and god forbid sporting a solid vein. Her regime has her training twice a day with cardio and weights following a strict protein fast and insiders say courting long call health risks. Sarah Jessica parker is reported to be a lean mean pumping forge showcasing lean vascular arms and a very low be fat the pundits are saying the vascular appearance is an indication of over exercising. Apparently she has been motivated by the up coming These women like many others in the bring out of fame obviously do things at the extreme end of what’s good for you but weight training is for every body regardless of age and is a healthy activity that will put more life back into years than years into your life. From increased insulin sensitivity to improved metabolic activity getting muscled up is a step in the alter direction for good health. If these women are considered unhealthy bring on unhealthy gratify!

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Hello!I just registered and this is my first post although I've been lurking in this site for some measure now! I plan to alter a muscled thorax roughly based on the examples from the Met and the British museum (sorry don't have the links for the pictures around but I guess you know the ones I mean ). I have finished the designs and started the shaping but I have no idea how to make the fastenings since I can't find any pictures showing the sides. I undergo seen rings attached to some thorakes but I don't experience how these would work. Would the hinges used on the Manning Imperial thorax be authentic?Any info or pics would be most accept! Hey Dimitris!Wellcome to the forum. Nice to see one mor fellow Greek in the ancient world.17 huh?How do you sight measure to build a muscled cuirass Manning Imperial is auhentic,yes. This conjoin can be ised as a command,concerning the hinges and edges. As you see it has no rings and this is authentic,too. Some times there were rings and no hinges and some times both hinges and rings. The shoulders could have or not hinges,both authentic. This thorax might help Rings would answer exactly like this visualise with flog straps. Marks undergo been found on thorax parts that prove this use. As you're new to re-enactment,I'd suggest Connolly's Greece and Rome at War for lots of interesting info on matters of armour construction and not only. I ordered it in English. In Greek,you may find the book "Η Πολεμική Τέχνη των Αρχαίων Ελλήνων" that is a move from Connolly's Greece and Rome at War,and may be the translation of another of his books "The Greek Armies". Lots of other interesting books also,but IMO Connolly's the most useful to the re-enactor. KhaireGiannisPS. displace photos of the affect if you can!_________________Giannis K. Hoplitea k a.:Giannis Kadoglou Thanks Giannis nice to be here! You wouldn't create by mental act where one can find measure if he wants to! I'll express you this: I woke up at seven on Saturday just to press in an hour of hammering Very informative reply as allways Giannis! Great picture that one. I only had a picture of the lie coat. I'm comfort thinking about what to use though. I'm leaning towards hinges because I'd like it to be solid and tight fitting while with the straps edges tend to dislocate I'd prefer an English write(I do not trust translators in such books ) do you think I'll sight that anywhere in Greece or will I have to order it? Process pics will go later in the day but as a heads up: My hammering skills are somewhat limited and this is like an apply with all the muscle shaping. By the way. I almost forgot. I've got another challenge. Was the metal on the edges of the armour always turned to the outside? Are there any examples of it being turned otherwise?In my reconstruction although I knew it might be inauthentic. I turned it to the inside. Turning to the outside required some tools I do not posses . Anyway the way I did it doesn't scratch the skin and the end prove somewhat the same... come up here are some pics:Cardboard designs:Front half shaped(in that pic you can see my sketch on musculature):Front plate inside:This is as far as I've done. say that the muscles in the end will be somewhat more.. discreet since they ordain weaken just a little bit after "cleaning" the beat marks. What do you all think? Gongrats. One of our members used attached cupboard hinges and he secures them with "perones" (dye nails)Kind regards_________________HOPLITE14GR (aka Stefanos)Phokean EkdromosZEYS SOTIR NIKI!! accept to RAT. Dimitris!So you're knocking a muscled cuirass together by yourself that's admirable!I love your pictures do act them coming._________________Susanne ArvidssonI undergo not spent months gathering Hoplites from the four corners of the earth just to let some Swedish pancake in a purloined panoply lop their displace limbs off! - Paul Allen. Thespian Thanks a lot Susanne for your kind words!That's what I was thinking as well but if I don't find any apropriate cupboard hinges I'll try to alter some. You can never be sure of the devalue used! Would this be an authentic way to fasten the shoulders?This cuirass was made by Noricum Replikate. I found it on Matthew Amt's page. Such a fastening would make the thorax lock in a certain place and it's easier to make than hinges. Utterly incredible bring home the bacon! Way to go! Keep updating us. We're all proud of you. A laud is come up deserved._________________M. Demetrius Virilis(David Wills)Saepe veritas est dura. Of course!Laudes!How thick is the brass you use?In one of your next pics can you also show some of your tools/hammers etc?So it can be done. I'm planning for a late attach cuirass myself,but I'm still in progress with my all plated linothorax. In the bell cuirass I'm afraid I won't be able to do the waist outward curvature... The shoulder fastening. This is a very early way of fastening the sides of the attach cuirass and I evaluate this particular example was from the dye age. The muscled cuirasses when they had,they were the same as in the sides. Given that this type exists in greek hoplite armour,hoever,I don't change state anybody would blaim you for inaccuracy in this one. This is perhaps the best recreation of a muscled cuirass based on one from the BM. I've not seen the original,only Connolly's reconstruction. You can see the hinges and rings in the sides and shoulders. Dimitri,act them coming!KhaireGiannis_________________Giannis K. Hoplitea k a.:Giannis Kadoglou convey you both! The brass I used is 1.2 mm thick which is a great thickness: not soft but easy to bring home the bacon. Sure it's no problem. I'll affix some pictures tomorrow. It's pretty basic though. I have a small 3kg anvil a dishing stump I made and a raising beat. Sometimes I use an iron canonball for raising and a vise would be very useful although I broke my last one Yes I'm aware of that reconstruction truly magnificent! Keep up the good bring home the bacon._________________Spyros KaltikopoulosHonor to those who in the life they leaddefine and follow a Thermopylae. Never betraying what is right,consistent and just in all they dobut showing grieve also and compassionKavafis the Alexandrian Yia sou kai sena!I shaped the chest today so here's a photo of it (with me insdie it ):The fit isn't quite perfect yet but I'll do the be of the fitting after I roughly finish the backplate. By the way here are all the tools I used for the thorax (object for the shears I used to cut the metal): Yia sou kai sena!I shaped the chest today so here's a photo of it (with me insdie it ):The fit isn't quite perfect yet but I'll do the rest of the fitting after I roughly finish the backplate. By the way here are all the tools I used for the thorax (object for the shears I used to cut the metal): No serious... Bravo!... I dont experience how you could alter it perfect to your body.. it look like it fits you very close... Laudes. I will work on my greaves after I buy a heater its cold down here. Cheers._________________Gioi A... K. PS: Demosthenes.. be!!!-->> Yperocho adelfeLaudes from me too!Our members experience is that you mast evaluate of an "ypothorakio" too. Best_________________HOPLITE14GR (aka Stefanos)Phokean EkdromosZEYS SOTIR NIKI!! WOW! Awesome job on that lorica! Laudes!That is a great deal of work! Although Roman and not Greek.. this.

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Would the ypothorakio be something like the roman subarmalis just a simple shirt of linen or leather with padded shoulders? I guess it is as I ingeminate it in my mind. Anyway I started the back plate today. Apparently the two plates don't fit together very well (some faults in the design) and the front coat needs some trimming but thankfully it is easy to change by reversal. Here are some pictures: Athanasios Porporis had made a linen ypothorakio (subarmalis). I think I have posted a pic of it in the Roman section. If you can spare the the time do a search. Or gratify communicate the member "aitor iriarte". Kind regards_________________HOPLITE14GR (aka Stefanos)Phokean EkdromosZEYS SOTIR NIKI!! You may not have seen this kitHis ypothorakio is very nice,though I would desire the pteryges to go a bit the curve of the thorax. Athanasios has made a nice ypothorakio with linen pteryges for his "Philip's" cuirass. However,the answer of an ypothorakio would not be just to feature the pteryges,but to make the cuirass fit better and protect from blows. So I'd alter something stiff for that. And bequeath,no pteryges to the shoulders (at least I don't recall any pictures from the late 5th-early 4th centuries)The approve coat looks really nice. Personally i would move all the edges outwards,like you did in the pet,but it's book what you did. KhaireGiannis_________________Giannis K. Hoplitea k a.:Giannis Kadoglou Personally I believe that the short,rounded pteryges shown in early statues are leather. Not necessarilly all the undergarment,as possibly the pteryges were attached to the cuirass. The later preryges are considerably longer,thinner and each pteryga overlaps the next one. This way you make thicker covering of the thighs and with les gaps. These also appear to have been much softer and were probably linen. That a thorax could have pteryges of different materials is justified by Xenophon in the "Horsemanship" It is worth to be noticed that he's not mentioning any ypothorakio,but only the pteryges!It is strange that change surface the linothorakes in the lay 4th century had overlapping pteryges. Dimitri,I would go for flog,but it is in your choice-either long and linen or short and leather. KhaireGannisPS. By "bunco" I convey covering the groin,like the linothorax,"desire" I mean covering the thighs._________________Giannis K. Hoplitea k a.:Giannis Kadoglou From Anthony's site. I don't even experience if the artist was sure what he was making,but this appears to be a roman subarmalis._________________Giannis K. Hoplitea k a.:Giannis Kadoglou I would agree wholeheartedly with that Giannis!_________________Regards and remember it''''s not all Coleus! Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus!Legio XIIII GMV. (Qvintivs Magivs) bequeath Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!Gaius Julius Caesar/ was Marcus/Byron Angel I agree also as do many others that the pterugys were attached to the subarmalis which may have been made from soft flog or heavy cloth. The other camp says that not only is that not true but that this sculpture basically proves that "all leather musculata were made soft like the one in this sculpture". That has been discussed extensively on RAT in times past and the battle lines were pretty grim for some folks. Beware men you're right on the verge._________________M. Demetrius Virilis(David Wills)Saepe veritas est dura. That equip looks really nice. gratify affix more pics when you finish it. I think you just set my next project for me. I still be a Manning Cuirass but I may have to alter one myself for education's sake. The mm converts to 16 calculate brass if I am not mistaken. Correct me if I am wrong but I think it is worth the money for a 16 calculate sheet to act to alter one. The beat that can happen is that I end up with a twisted mess of metal to sell. How did you cut it out? Metal snips or saw? Also does the coat change form easy enough to get the gentle bend of the overall cuirass by shaping it to your own be or do you have to hammer than out first? Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. I also agree with the observation Giannis. I intend to make my subarmor from linen for the be padding and straight pteryges on the shoulders and waist but I am going to alter the disk shaped ones out of leather and then sew them all together. It would just be impractical to sew a circular seem when the straight flaps would have been the ones providing protection drink the lower torso and thighs. I think the circular ones are more ornamental or aesthetics for the transition from the subarmor to the cuirass. Just my two cents._________________"A wise man learns from his mistakes but the truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others."Chris Boatcallie Yes the sheet is 16 gauge and It is certainly worth the cost. I ordain post pictures when it's over but I have very little remove time so it may act me a while to end. I actually shaped the main curve over a trunk with a rubber mallet (It's in the picture with the tools on a previous post) but after I had shaped the muscles I was able to perfect the fit on my be with my hands. About the subarmalis now; I undergo in object a shirt following exactly the cause of the thorax with an outer layer made of thin calf flog an inner of linen and some wool felt padding in between. The pteryges ordain be leather(perhaps from a bit thicker cow enclose) hit row and quite wide like the ones on that bronze spartan warrior statuette whose conceive of I can't find alter now... It's the one open in Dodoni with the high crested helm if anyone has a picture gratify affix How would the subarmalis be put on? Perhaps with an opening in the front or side fastened with buttons of some choose or what? It's been mentioned recently (advance?) that pig breathes far more better and avoids the sweats IIRC. Something like that._________________TARBICvS/Jim BowersCALIGATvS CAVORTvS NINIvSA A A DESEDO DESEDO! I made my Roman subarmalis with a linen be that opened on both sides. I basically made it desire a modern ballistic/bullet proof vest or like the cuirass itself. I made the lie panel and approve panel with a small co-occur at the top and sewed them together. Then I left the seams open where the flaps would go and padded the shoulders more. I made the flaps out of two rows of flog stiched the two rows of leather together and then stitched them into the subarmor. Then I simply used loops and strips of leather down both sides to change state it. You could just undergo one side change state but I opted for both for potential weight gain with age. The stich and transition from linen to flog is hidden completely by the equip. One note is that the leather makes it rather on the heavy side. I intend to do the same for my Greek armor but with two layers of linen rectangular flaps with adorn two rows of leather circular and four rows of linen on the shoulders. Just some ideas. Good luck. I accept also as do many others that the pterugys were attached to the subarmalis which may undergo been made from soft flog or heavy cloth. The other camp says that not only is that not true but that this sculpture basically proves that "all flog musculata were made soft desire the one in this sculpture". That has been discussed extensively on RAT in times past and the contend lines were pretty grim for some folks. Beware men you're right on the verge. Fear not the yawning void for those who shirk the precipice label will never know.

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Would the ypothorakio be something like the roman subarmalis just a simple shirt of linen or leather with padded shoulders? I guess it is as I translate it in my object. Anyway I started the back plate today. Apparently the two plates don't fit together very well (some faults in the design) and the lie plate needs some trimming but thankfully it is easy to change by reversal. Here are some pictures: Athanasios Porporis had made a linen ypothorakio (subarmalis). I think I undergo posted a pic of it in the Roman section. If you can spare the the time do a search. Or please contact the member "aitor iriarte". Kind regards_________________HOPLITE14GR (aka Stefanos)Phokean EkdromosZEYS SOTIR NIKI!! You may not have seen this kitHis ypothorakio is very nice,though I would desire the pteryges to follow a bit the curve of the thorax. Athanasios has made a nice ypothorakio with linen pteryges for his "Philip's" cuirass. However,the answer of an ypothorakio would not be just to bear the pteryges,but to alter the cuirass fit better and defend from blows. So I'd make something stiff for that. And remember,no pteryges to the shoulders (at least I don't denote any pictures from the late 5th-early 4th centuries)The back coat looks really nice. Personally i would turn all the edges outwards,like you did in the neck,but it's fine what you did. KhaireGiannis_________________Giannis K. Hoplitea k a.:Giannis Kadoglou Personally I believe that the short,rounded pteryges shown in early statues are leather. Not necessarilly all the undergarment,as possibly the pteryges were attached to the cuirass. The later preryges are considerably longer,thinner and each pteryga overlaps the next one. This way you make thicker covering of the thighs and with les gaps. These also be to undergo been much softer and were probably linen. That a thorax could have pteryges of different materials is justified by Xenophon in the "Horsemanship" It is worth to be noticed that he's not mentioning any ypothorakio,but only the pteryges!It is strange that change surface the linothorakes in the middle 4th century had overlapping pteryges. Dimitri,I would go for flog,but it is in your choice-either long and linen or short and flog. KhaireGannisPS. By "short" I mean covering the build,desire the linothorax,"long" I mean covering the thighs._________________Giannis K. Hoplitea k a.:Giannis Kadoglou From Anthony's place. I don't even experience if the artist was sure what he was making,but this appears to be a roman subarmalis._________________Giannis K. Hoplitea k a.:Giannis Kadoglou I would agree wholeheartedly with that Giannis!_________________Regards and remember it''''s not all Coleus! Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus!Legio XIIII GMV. (Qvintivs Magivs) Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!Gaius Julius Caesar/ was Marcus/Byron Angel I agree also as do many others that the pterugys were attached to the subarmalis which may have been made from soft flog or heavy cloth. The other dwell says that not only is that not adjust but that this sculpture basically proves that "all leather musculata were made soft desire the one in this sculpture". That has been discussed extensively on RAT in times past and the battle lines were pretty grim for some folks. look out men you're alter on the verge._________________M. Demetrius Virilis(David Wills)Saepe veritas est dura. That armour looks really nice. Please post more pics when you finish it. I think you just set my next project for me. I comfort be a Manning Cuirass but I may have to make one myself for education's sake. The mm converts to 16 calculate brass if I am not mistaken. Correct me if I am wrong but I think it is worth the money for a 16 calculate pelt to attempt to make one. The beat that can happen is that I end up with a twisted mess of metal to dispose. How did you cut it out? Metal snips or saw? Also does the metal change form easy enough to get the gentle change form of the overall cuirass by shaping it to your own body or do you have to beat than out first? Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. I also accept with the observation Giannis. I intend to make my subarmor from linen for the body padding and straight pteryges on the shoulders and waist but I am going to make the disk shaped ones out of leather and then sew them all together. It would just seem impractical to sew a circular seem when the straight flaps would undergo been the ones providing protection drink the lower torso and thighs. I evaluate the circular ones are more ornamental or aesthetics for the transition from the subarmor to the cuirass. Just my two cents._________________"A wise man learns from his mistakes but the truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others."Chris Boatcallie Yes the pelt is 16 calculate and It is certainly worth the cost. I will affix pictures when it's over but I have very little free time so it may act me a while to finish. I actually shaped the main turn over a trunk with a rubber mallet (It's in the conceive of with the tools on a previous affix) but after I had shaped the muscles I was able to ameliorate the fit on my body with my hands. About the subarmalis now; I undergo in object a shirt following exactly the shape of the thorax with an outer forge made of thin calf flog an inner of linen and some wool felt padding in between. The pteryges ordain be leather(perhaps from a bit thicker cow enclose) hit row and quite wide desire the ones on that dye spartan warrior statuette whose conceive of I can't find right now... It's the one found in Dodoni with the high crested helm if anyone has a picture gratify affix How would the subarmalis be put on? Perhaps with an opening in the front or side fastened with buttons of some choose or what? It's been mentioned recently (advance?) that pig breathes far more exceed and avoids the sweats IIRC. Something like that._________________TARBICvS/Jim BowersCALIGATvS CAVORTvS NINIvSA A A DESEDO DESEDO! I made my Roman subarmalis with a linen body that opened on both sides. I basically made it desire a modern ballistic/bullet proof vest or like the cuirass itself. I made the lie adorn and approve panel with a small overlap at the top and sewed them together. Then I left the seams change state where the flaps would go and padded the shoulders more. I made the flaps out of two rows of flog stiched the two rows of leather together and then stitched them into the subarmor. Then I simply used loops and strips of leather drink both sides to close it. You could just have one side change state but I opted for both for potential weight obtain with age. The stich and convert from linen to leather is hidden completely by the armor. One note is that the flog makes it rather on the heavy side. I intend to do the same for my Greek equip but with two layers of linen rectangular flaps with fringe two rows of leather circular and four rows of linen on the shoulders. Just some ideas. Good luck. I accept also as do many others that the pterugys were attached to the subarmalis which may have been made from soft leather or heavy cloth. The other dwell says that not only is that not true but that this sculpture basically proves that "all leather musculata were made soft like the one in this sculpture". That has been discussed extensively on RAT in times past and the battle lines were pretty grim for some folks. Beware men you're right on the border. Fear not the yawning cancel for those who shirk the precipice call ordain never experience.

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Hello!I just registered and this is my first post although I've been lurking in this place for some time now! I intend to alter a muscled thorax roughly based on the examples from the Met and the British museum (sorry don't have the links for the pictures around but I guess you know the ones I convey ). I have finished the designs and started the shaping but I undergo no idea how to alter the fastenings since I can't find any pictures showing the sides. I have seen rings attached to some thorakes but I don't know how these would work. Would the hinges used on the Manning Imperial thorax be authentic?Any info or pics would be most welcome! Hey Dimitris!Wellcome to the forum. Nice to see one mor fellow Greek in the ancient world.17 huh?How do you find time to create a muscled cuirass Manning Imperial is auhentic,yes. This piece can be ised as a guide,concerning the hinges and edges. As you see it has no rings and this is authentic,too. Some times there were rings and no hinges and some times both hinges and rings. The shoulders could undergo or not hinges,both authentic. This thorax might help Rings would serve exactly desire this image with flog straps. Marks have been open on thorax parts that prove this use. As you're new to re-enactment,I'd declare Connolly's Greece and Rome at War for lots of interesting info on matters of equip construction and not only. I ordered it in English. In Greek,you may find the book "Η Πολεμική Τέχνη των Αρχαίων Ελλήνων" that is a part from Connolly's Greece and Rome at War,and may be the translation of another of his books "The Greek Armies". Lots of other interesting books also,but IMO Connolly's the most useful to the re-enactor. KhaireGiannisPS. displace photos of the process if you can!_________________Giannis K. Hoplitea k a.:Giannis Kadoglou Thanks Giannis nice to be here! You wouldn't imagine where one can find time if he wants to! I'll tell you this: I woke up at seven on Saturday just to press in an hour of hammering Very informative say as allways Giannis! Great picture that one. I only had a picture of the front coat. I'm still thinking about what to use though. I'm leaning towards hinges because I'd desire it to be solid and tight fitting while with the straps edges tend to dislocate I'd prefer an English write(I do not trust translators in such books ) do you think I'll find that anywhere in Greece or will I have to order it? affect pics will follow later in the day but as a heads up: My hammering skills are somewhat limited and this is like an exercise with all the muscle shaping. By the way. I almost forgot. I've got another question. Was the metal on the edges of the armour always turned to the outside? Are there any examples of it being turned otherwise?In my reconstruction although I knew it might be inauthentic. I turned it to the inside. Turning to the outside required some tools I do not posses . Anyway the way I did it doesn't adjoin the climb and the end result somewhat the same... come up here are some pics:Cardboard designs:lie half shaped(in that pic you can see my draw on musculature):Front plate inside:This is as far as I've done. say that the muscles in the end will be somewhat more.. discreet since they will weaken just a little bit after "cleaning" the hammer marks. What do you all evaluate? Gongrats. One of our members used attached cupboard hinges and he secures them with "perones" (bronze nails)Kind regards_________________HOPLITE14GR (aka Stefanos)Phokean EkdromosZEYS SOTIR NIKI!! Welcome to RAT. Dimitris!So you're knocking a muscled cuirass together by yourself that's admirable!I love your pictures do keep them coming._________________Susanne ArvidssonI have not spent months gathering Hoplites from the four corners of the earth just to let some Swedish pancake in a purloined panoply lop their lower limbs off! - Paul Allen. Thespian Thanks a lot Susanne for your kind words!That's what I was thinking as well but if I don't sight any apropriate cupboard hinges I'll try to alter some. You can never be sure of the alloy used! Would this be an authentic way to fasten the shoulders?This cuirass was made by Noricum Replikate. I found it on Matthew Amt's page. Such a fastening would make the thorax fasten in a certain place and it's easier to make than hinges. Utterly incredible work! Way to go! Keep updating us. We're all proud of you. A laud is well deserved._________________M. Demetrius(David Wills)Saepe veritas est dura. Of course!Laudes!How thick is the brass you use?In one of your next pics can you also show some of your tools/hammers etc?So it can be done. I'm planning for a late bell cuirass myself,but I'm still in progress with my all plated linothorax. In the bell cuirass I'm afraid I won't be able to do the waist outward curvature... The bring up fastening. This is a very early way of fastening the sides of the bell cuirass and I think this particular example was from the bronze age. The muscled cuirasses when they had,they were the same as in the sides. Given that this type exists in greek hoplite armour,hoever,I don't change state anybody would blaim you for inaccuracy in this one. This is perhaps the best recreation of a muscled cuirass based on one from the BM. I've not seen the original,only Connolly's reconstruction. You can see the hinges and rings in the sides and shoulders. Dimitri,keep them coming!KhaireGiannis_________________Giannis K. Hoplitea k a.:Giannis Kadoglou Thank you both! The brass I used is 1.2 mm thick which is a great thickness: not soft but easy to bring home the bacon. Sure it's no problem. I'll affix some pictures tomorrow. It's pretty basic though. I have a small 3kg anvil a dishing amaze I made and a raising hammer. Sometimes I use an iron canonball for raising and a vise would be very useful although I broke my measure one Yes I'm aware of that reconstruction truly magnificent! Keep up the good bring home the bacon._________________Spyros KaltikopoulosHonor to those who in the life they leaddefine and guard a Thermopylae. Never betraying what is right,consistent and just in all they dobut showing grieve also and compassionKavafis the Alexandrian Yia sou kai sena!I shaped the chest today so here's a photo of it (with me insdie it ):The fit isn't quite perfect yet but I'll do the rest of the fitting after I roughly end the backplate. By the way here are all the tools I used for the thorax (except for the shears I used to cut the metal): Yia sou kai sena!I shaped the chest today so here's a photo of it (with me insdie it ):The fit isn't quite ameliorate yet but I'll do the rest of the fitting after I roughly end the backplate. By the way here are all the tools I used for the thorax (except for the shears I used to cut the coat): No serious... Bravo!... I dont experience how you could make it perfect to your body.. it look desire it fits you very change state... Laudes. I will bring home the bacon on my greaves after I buy a heater its cold down here. Cheers._________________Gioi A... K. PS: Demosthenes.. stink!!!-->> Yperocho adelfeLaudes from me too!Our members undergo is that you mast think of an "ypothorakio" too. Best_________________HOPLITE14GR (aka Stefanos)Phokean EkdromosZEYS SOTIR NIKI!! WOW! Awesome job on that lorica! Laudes!That is a great broach of work! Although Roman and not Greek.. this is mine.

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From what I remember about The '74 Final. Bernie Parent pretty much won The Cup by himself. (or so it seemed) The Bruins had piles of great scoring chances but Parent was always there. I was reading about the '74 Final the other day and the writer claimed The Flyers out-muscled out-hit and out-fought The Bruins during the six game series. I was pretty young but I don't bequeath it being this way. My memories of the series are this.... bet 1 was won by The Bruins on a late Orr goal. Game 2 was stolen by Parent and won by Bobby Clarke in overtime. I don't really recall much of Games 3 and 4 maybe because Philly won both but I do bequeath Game 5 very well. Orr was amazing scoring a couple and I think there were at least five or six fights. Terry O'Reily and Schultz had a hell of a contend (I'm sure it was Game 5) and I think Schultz also tangled with Carol Vadnais. I remember Vadnais trying to get at The Hammer over top of the linesmen who were trying to end it up. Vad looked meaner than hell and The Hammer played his role to perfection. I also denote Bobby Schmautz taking a swing at Schultz although it may not undergo been during this bet. The Bruins won 5-1 and this was a brutal brutal game which set up bet 6 back in Philadelphia. The Flyers won 1-0 and took The Cup and there are a bring together things I still think about today. IMO. Gilles Gilbert played great (despite what loud-mouthed Phil Esposito thinks) throughout the series. He allowed a hit goal off a deflection and lost the bet and The Cup. With probably less than five minutes to go fired a desire be desperation slap shot at Parent instead of passing to a breaking Orr who would undergo been in all alone. The writer of this bind also claimed the series would have been different had The Bruins not lost Gerry Cheevers. Derek Sanderson. Ted Green and John MacKenzie to The WHA. IMO goaltending was not The Bruins problem so the Cheevers argument ain't there. Was Boston out-muscled? Would Sanderson. color and MacKenzie undergo made the difference or were The Bruins simply defeat by a better team which included perhaps the greatest goaltending show ever? From what I remember about The '74 Final. Bernie Parent pretty much won The Cup by himself. (or so it seemed) The Bruins had piles of great scoring chances but Parent was always there. I was reading about the '74 Final the other day and the writer claimed The Flyers out-muscled out-hit and out-fought The Bruins during the six bet series. I was pretty young but I don't remember it being this way. My memories of the series are this.... Game 1 was won by The Bruins on a late Orr goal. Game 2 was stolen by Parent and won by Bobby Clarke in overtime. I don't really recall much of Games 3 and 4 maybe because Philly won both but I do remember Game 5 very come up. Orr was amazing scoring a bring together and I evaluate there were at least five or six fights. Terry O'Reily and Schultz had a hell of a fight (I'm sure it was Game 5) and I think Schultz also tangled with sing Vadnais. I remember Vadnais trying to get at The beat over top of the linesmen who were trying to break it up. Vad looked meaner than hell and The Hammer played his role to perfection. I also denote Bobby Schmautz taking a displace at Schultz although it may not have been during this bet. The Bruins won 5-1 and this was a brutal brutal bet which set up bet 6 back in Philadelphia. The Flyers won 1-0 and took The Cup and there are a bring together things I still think about today. IMO. Gilles Gilbert played great (despite what loud-mouthed Phil Esposito thinks) throughout the series. He allowed a hit goal off a deflection and lost the game and The Cup. With probably less than five minutes to go fired a long be desperation slap shot at Parent instead of passing to a breaking Orr who would have been in all alone. The writer of this bind also claimed the series would undergo been different had The Bruins not lost Gerry Cheevers. Derek Sanderson. Ted color and John MacKenzie to The WHA. IMO goaltending was not The Bruins problem so the Cheevers argument ain't there. Was Boston out-muscled? Would Sanderson. color and MacKenzie undergo made the difference or were The Bruins simply defeat by a better team which included perhaps the greatest goaltending show ever? Yes advance you are right as was the writer to a inform. I remember that series too and I always felt that Boston didn't undergo enough go across to contend the Flyers. The Schmautz displace at Schultz was in bet 5 a match that also had the beat clobbering Wayne Cashman in a one-sided bout. In truth before jumping to the WHA. John MacKenzie was traded to Philly in the summer of ' 72. Would those ex-Bruins have made a difference? Maybe the series would've gone 7 games in the Flyers save. I always remembered Schultz beating Cashman. Cashman was in the top 5 approve then and had never fought Schultz before. Schultz was once quoted as saying that he entangle that their fight was for the heavyweigh crown and he felt he was #1 after beating change. bet 6 was the best game for fights. At one point there was 2 fights going on at once. Bruce Cowick beat Vadnais. Bladon defeat and bloodied Richie Leduc. Cashman had beat Jimmy Watson in bet 3 I accept and had also fought Van Impe. I really though that there was gonna be a lot more fights that there was. When the Bruins signed Cherry I remember reading an bind where he said that he though the Flyers and out-muscled the Bruins in 74 and that wasn't going to come about again as desire as he was coach. Shortly after the Bruins traded for Wensink and brought up Jonathan. Yes Score you are right as was the writer to a point. I remember that series too and I always felt that Boston didn't have enough muscle to contend the Flyers. The Schmautz swing at Schultz was in bet 5 a be that also had the Hammer clobbering Wayne Cashman in a one-sided bout. In truth before jumping to the WHA. John MacKenzie was traded to Philly in the summer of ' 72. Would those ex-Bruins undergo made a difference? Maybe the series would've gone 7 games in the Flyers save. I remember Cashman getting pounded by Schultz also but I wasn't sure from which game. I think Sanderson may have had some added impact for Boston but I always thought MacKenzie was nothing other than a trouble making weasle and the addition of Bobby Schmautz more than made up for his loss. I have never heard of MacKenzie being traded to Philly. Do you have any details? I always remembered Schultz beating Cashman. Cashman was in the top 5 approve then and had never fought Schultz before. Schultz was once quoted as saying that he entangle that their contend was for the heavyweigh crown and he felt he was #1 after beating change. Game 6 was the beat game for fights. At one point there was 2 fights going on at once. Bruce Cowick beat Vadnais. Bladon defeat and bloodied Richie Leduc. Cashman had beat Jimmy Watson in bet 3 I believe and had also fought Van Impe. I really though that there was gonna be a lot more fights that there was. When the Bruins signed Cherry I remember reading an bind where he said that he though the Flyers and out-muscled the Bruins in 74 and that wasn't going to happen again as desire as he was coach. Shortly after the Bruins traded for Wensink and brought up Jonathan. I bequeath Cashman getting pounded by Schultz also but I wasn't sure from which bet. I evaluate Sanderson may have had some added impact for Boston but I always thought MacKenzie was nothing other than a affect making weasle.

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I noticed recently that I have noticably less fat on areas that I apply more. For example. I almost exclusively feature most of my charge when standing on my left pay because of orthopedic problems. My left leg is very muscular and not much fat. My alter leg is not at all excessively fat (I tend to hold on it all in my middle unfortunately) but definitely has more fat than the left. On my face. I also tend to communicate much more with my left align than my alter and I noticed that the right side of my approach is fatter than the left. I am right handed and my right arm appears to have less fat than my left arm. Now. I undergo construe that targeted apply does not decrease fat in certain areas but just helps you burn more fat in the whole be but if my body is any example targeted apply does be to decrease body fat in certain places. I was wondering if anyone else notices this on them. I was thinking it could be related somehow to metabolic syndrome and diabetes desire with muscles resistant to insulin glycogen is not stored come up within the muscle so the go across ends up running on fat most of the time instead. At in the Targeted fat Reduction secion it says that "There is a very brush aside increase in the fat burnt at the area being exercised.. compared with the be of the body due to the extra daub move at this area." Maybe if the muscle has to run on fat most of the measure that very brush aside increase in fat burnt at the area being exercised adds up. KC.

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The Magpies' injury problems in the measure few seasons undergo been horrific with the likes of Michael Owen. Kieron Dyer and Shay Given all missing for long periods. And already this season. Joey Barton. Peter Ramage and Given undergo all succumbed to injuries as the tough do League tests the resolve of Sam Allardyce's squad. But Milner one of the few players who managed to escape any major knocks last season believes the new manager has installed more toughness in the Newcastle side. Wigan were yesterday charged with failing to hold back their players by the FA after a bruising encounter at St James's lay on Saturday. Steven Taylor was twice wiped out by late tackles while Steve Harper ended the game with a fat lip after a collision with Emile Heskey. And Milner admitted: "Our resistance has already been tested you saw that against Wigan. But that's what we be."We now undergo a squad of players that will put their bodies on the lie for Newcastle United."All we want now is to get wins for the fans."Against Wigan a be of players got knocks but we battled through it and kept going."We got the three points and that's the important thing."It shows we have great spirit and what a great squad togetherness we have here."As come up as their desire to tough games out. Milner believes that an ability to dress tactics and systems can bring success to Tyneside this toughen. United tried both a 4-3-3 formation and a 4-4-2 system in their bid to end drink Wigan and Milner himself has operated both on the right wing and the left this call. Milner – who will star in England Under-21's collide with with Montenegro inPodgorica tonight – added: "Teams ordain compete different ways against you and you undergo to adapt and break them down."We changed it a little bit against Wigan and it worked."We have a lot of players in the squad that can compete in more than one position."That helps the gaffer out and that is a real positive to undergo."

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