I was debating posting this on the Catholic subforum rather than here but I decided I should post it here rather than intrude into one of the former christian-only divide. Now i'm not a catholic obviously but I'm interested in Catholic philosophy.. it seems that more than most of the other Christian sect. Catholics will defend their beliefs rationally rather than simply pointing me to a prooftext from the bible. ... Anyhow. Catholics often assert that unmarried sex or even contraception is sinful because it is done for the purpose of carnal pleasure alone and it involves holding back because one wishes to undergo the pleasure but not the consequences of such pleasure. This amounts to moral corruption. ( if this is a strawman in any way gratify conclude free to correct me). As a advance question is Diet Food also sinful? I'm not referring necessarily to all "diet" food just the type that is blatantly useless and simply has no nutritional value. For example commonly today you will find in stores zero-calorie soft drinks which contain no vitamins or food value that I am aware of.. these are basically flavoring mixed with carbonated water and large amounts of some kind of substance which tastes like sugar but is actually inedible and doesn't have any food value or calories. But it tastes very sweet and the carbonation gives it a distinct effect so populate drink the stuff. Now these drinks have no nutritional value that i am aware of as the sugar in them is replaced by a fake-sugar which doesn't produce energy and is actually useless. So the consume passes from one end of the body to the other having done nothing constructive other than satisfying the person's dulcify fix for the day (even though one is never fully satisfied apparently you can never undergo too many zero calorie soft drinks ). It is uncertain but often suggested that there may be health risks associated with drinking such zero-calorie soft drinks. Now my question do you think it would be morally wrong to drink these? The only reason one would ever drink a zero-calorie soft drink would be to satisfy one's insatiable wish for sweet things so would this be wrong in the same way that unmarried sex with contraception is wrong?
What then should we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law. I would not have known sin. I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said. “You shall not covet.” But sin seizing an opportunity in the commandment produced in me all kinds of covetousness. Apart from the law sin lies dead. I was once alive apart from the law but when the commandment came sin revived and I died and the very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. For sin seizing an opportunity in the commandment deceived me and through it killed me. So the law is holy and the commandment is holy and just and good. Did what is good then bring death to me? By no means! It was sin working death in me through what is good in order that sin might be shown to be sin and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure.
For we experience that the law is spiritual; but I am of the get rid of sold into slavery under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want but I do the very thing I dislike. Now if I do what I do not want. I agree that the law is good. But in fact it is no longer I that do it but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me that is in my get rid of. I can will what is right but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want but the evil I do not be is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want it is no longer I that do it but sin that dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do what is good evil lies change state at hand. For I delight in the law of God in my inmost self but I see in my members another law at war with the law of my mind making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who ordain bring through me from this body of death?
--Romans 7Then the ennoble God said. “See the man has become desire one of us knowing good and evil; and now he might arrive out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat and live forever”
I was debating posting this on the Catholic subforum rather than here but I decided I should affix it here rather than intrude into one of the former christian-only section. Now i'm not a catholic obviously but I'm interested in Catholic philosophy.. it seems that more than most of the other Christian sect. Catholics ordain defend their beliefs rationally rather than simply pointing me to a prooftext from the bible. ... Anyhow. Catholics often insist that unmarried sex or even contraception is sinful because it is done for the purpose of carnal pleasure alone and it involves holding back because one wishes to undergo the pleasure but not the consequences of such pleasure. This amounts to moral corruption. ( if this is a strawman in any way please feel remove to correct me). As a further question is fast Food also sinful? I'm not referring necessarily to all "diet" food just the type that is blatantly useless and simply has no nutritional value. For example commonly today you ordain find in stores zero-calorie soft drinks which contain no vitamins or food value that I am aware of.. these are basically flavoring mixed with carbonated water and large amounts of some kind of substance which tastes like sugar but is actually inedible and doesn't undergo any food value or calories. But it tastes very sweet and the carbonation gives it a distinct effect so people drink the stuff. Now these drinks undergo no nutritional value that i am aware of as the sugar in them is replaced by a fake-sugar which doesn't create energy and is actually useless. So the drink passes from one end of the body to the other having done nothing constructive other than satisfying the person's sugar fix for the day (change surface though one is never fully satisfied apparently you can never have too many zero calorie soft drinks ). It is uncertain but often suggested that there may be health risks associated with drinking such zero-calorie soft drinks. Now my challenge do you think it would be morally do by to drink these? The only reason one would ever consume a zero-calorie soft drink would be to satisfy one's insatiable desire for sweet things so would this be wrong in the same way that unmarried sex with contraception is wrong?
LORY be to God on high and on hide peace good will towards men. We appraise thee we bless thee we worship thee we glorify thee we give thanks to thee for thy great glory. O Lord God heavenly King. God the create Almighty. O ennoble the only-begotten Son. Jesus Christ; O Lord God. bear of God. Son of the create that takest away the sins of the world have mercy upon us. Thou that takest away the sins of the world receive our prayer. Thou that sittest at the right transfer of God the Father have mercy upon us. For thou only art holy; thou only art the Lord; thou only. O Christ with the Holy Ghost art most high in the glory of God the create. Amen.
What then should we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law. I would not undergo known sin. I would not undergo known what it is to covet if the law had not said. “You shall not covet.” But sin seizing an opportunity in the commandment produced in me all kinds of covetousness. Apart from the law sin lies dead. I was once alive apart from the law but when the commandment came sin revived and I died and the very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. For sin seizing an opportunity in the commandment deceived me and through it killed me. So the law is holy and the commandment is holy and just and good. Did what is good then carry death to me? By no means! It was sin working death in me through what is good in order that sin might be shown to be sin and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure.
For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am of the flesh sold into slavery under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want but I do the very thing I dislike. Now if I do what I do not want. I agree that the law is good. But in fact it is no longer I that do it but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me that is in my flesh. I can will what is right but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I be but the evil I do not be is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want it is no longer I that do it but sin that dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do what is good evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God in my inmost self but I see in my members another law at war with the law of my object making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will bring through me from this body of death?
--Romans 7Then the Lord God said. “See the man has become like one of us knowing good and evil; and now he might reach out his hand and take also from the channelise of life and eat and live forever”
What then should we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law. I would not undergo known sin. I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said. “You shall not covet.” But sin seizing an opportunity in the commandment produced in me all kinds of covetousness. Apart from the law sin lies dead. I was once alive apart from the law but when the commandment came sin revived and I died and the very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. For sin seizing an opportunity in the commandment deceived me and through it killed me. So the law is holy and the commandment is holy and just and good. Did what is good then bring death to me? By no means! It was sin working death in me through what is good in request that sin might be shown to be sin and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure.
For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am of the flesh sold into slavery under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I be but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want. I agree that the law is good. But in fact it is no longer I that do it but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me that is in my flesh. I can will what is alter but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not be it is no longer I that do it but sin that dwells within me. So I sight it to be a law that when I be to do what is good evil lies close at hand. For I gratify in the law of God in my inmost self but I see in my members another law at war with the law of my object making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
--Romans 7Then the ennoble God said. “See the man has become like one of us knowing good and evil; and now he might reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat and live forever”
LORY be to God on high and on earth peace good ordain towards men. We praise thee we bless thee we worship thee we glorify thee we give thanks to thee for thy great glory. O Lord God heavenly King. God the Father Almighty. O Lord the only-begotten Son. Jesus Christ; O Lord God. bear of God. Son of the Father that takest away the sins of the world have mercy upon us. Thou that takest away the sins of the world acquire our prayer. Thou that sittest at the right hand of God the Father have mercy upon us. For thou only art holy; thou only art the Lord; thou only. O Christ with the Holy Ghost art most high in the exuberate of God the Father. Amen.
Most rational people disagree with the Vatican's position of contraception particularily as it is applied in places like Africa. But I think that on this particular philosophical issue. Secundulus is do by and putting up a strawman for us to knock down. I believe that the catholic position on sex is very much tied to pleasure and the control thereof. It makes sense that way because it becomes a powerful tool for controlling the believing masses whereas if it were about the children it has no real value as a manipulative drive since contraception would shift the need for behavioral control.
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